Hi Dave
Well there is a model of an early Saxon society (more or less the heroic society) which has churls at the level you mean - but again there is plenty of debate about how similar to later Medieval peasants these were, and also about how much the 'levels' really existed on the ground and how much they were a convenient literary fiction. In the 19th century it was very popular to see the Anglo-Saxon Churl as being much 'freer' than the Medieval peasant, but that has been worked away at through the whole 20th century until a lot of people think they were more or less the same thing. I guess the question is what point Eve wants to pick in it's becoming 'more complex and defined over time' as you say!

FWIW Samphire is in at least one Anglo-Saxon document, although it's rock samphire not marsh samphire but I'm sure they ate both.
Soph

I don't think - if you want them to be pagan - you actually have to engage much with religion. We have no evidence that suggests that every community would have had any kind of shrine or priest/ess hanging around full time. It's more a case of folklore, and the stuff that would happen if you wanted to include a burial taking place. Otherwise leave it alone, but decide which in your own head so that their belief context influences their actions.
(Incidentally, they could just not be hunting because there isn't much to hunt. Are they near a forest? Because if they're not then there wouldn't be much game about.)
Soph

I've wondered how much of the land would have been cleared. I have only a vague notion of population and how much forest would be left. I don't have much idea of what would exist between "villages" and to what extent villages would have existed. I've imagined a rough grouping of peasant holdings where people in that grouping would know each other and those beyond it would be strangers. I have so far tried to keep a lord out of the story because I don't really have a role for one.
Dave, I wonder if a lord would destroy the peasants' foodstuffs as you suggest. That wouldn't be too smart if he depended on the peasants for labour.
Sophie, there is information on the website to the effect that the Saxons believed in roughly the same northern gods as the Scandinavians - Thor, Woden etc. I've wondered what that is based on and how confident one can be that they would have shared roughly the same mythology.

Your information is helpful, Dave. Even though I have spent so much time in England, my perspective is still very much influenced by my Canadian (Ontario) experience and so much of out land (that hasn't been paved over) is still wooded. I still find it hard to get my head around how much of England's landscape has been shaped by humans, and over what expanse of time.

I think if I had the lord destroy the crops, that would bring in a whole new plot element.

Interesting. Where did you find that information ? Pioneer Village was outside the city when I was a child, but Toronto has sprawled tremendously and swallowed vast areas of countryside since I was child. I haven't been out to Black Creek for a very long time, but I know teachers who take their classes there for a week each year. They go daily, dressed in pioneer garb and do their lessons out there.

Your sheep in 10th C Lincoln might already have been mainly for wool Dave, so you can't just go by what proportion of the diet they made up.
Eve - you've hit the nail on the head - England is not at all like Canada in that it's 'always' (well, since at least the Neolithic anyway) been pretty much a man made landscape. No 'wildwood' in the southern Britain by the time we're talking about but open woodland which would have been managed in Roman times and would either be derelict, or being brought back into management or cleared by these early/early Mid Saxons.
Soph

What form it would take depends on how it had been managed in the past and how it was being, or not being, managed at the time, but there could be areas of coppicing (coppiced trees appear as many small rods growing from a ground level stump and getting to about 8 feet high) or pollarding (similar, but at a stump height of 5 or 6 feet) and timber stands (large trees selected and somewhat cleared around so that they will grow straight and reach a good height, to produce building wood). In between these the undergrowth would be managed by grazing with pigs, which would keep it fairly open. Overall, you shouldn't be thinking 'deep dark tangle where nobody goes' but plenty of light and air getting in. Does that help?
Soph

This all helps. Again, it is quite different from anything I know.

I wish a few more people would ask some questions around here.

Dave - What is it you are doing on the Roman period ?

Hello Dave

Have you come across oculist stamps? If not, they may be of interest to you.

What written sources are you consulting? Galen?

What are oculists' stamps and what can be learned from them ?
Dave - Why do you think the Romans may have learned about surgery from the Celts ?
And why do you think differences in burial practices caused problems between the Romans and the Iceni in particular ?

Matt - How are you ? Are you digging up Romans these days ?

For various reasons the Romans appeared to have suffered from a lot of eye problems. A stiff ointment was made to treat the eye conditions and the oculists stamp was used to indicate the maker and the contents of the ointment. From the distribution in the UK it appears from the oculist stamps that the makers were travelling doctors following a route round certain towns which provides some indication on the structure of medical treatment. Additionally the oculists stamps are only found in the North West of the Roman Empire so was it just this region that suffered from eye problems, were eye problems treated differently elsewhere, or does it mean that a tax was payable and the oculist stamp is a sign that the tax has been paid.

One of the best set of surgical instruments was found in a grave site at Stanway near Colchester and this was a Celtic burial rather than Roman. Following this up I have found various references to surgical instruments in association with Celtic warrior graves in Europe so I am trying to understand what this means. The Greeks did carry out forms of surgery but the Romans were much more advanced so was their another factor influencing the Roman skills. The only tools that could be buried according to Roman burials rites were surgical instruments so does this signify that owners were not Roman. The problem with this is that a lot of the doctors were of Greek origin who acquired Roman citizenship.

The AD 47 revolt was caused by the Romans stoppping the Iceni carrying arms. I have always been puzzled why. Now according to Roman law you cannot bury weapons with a body so is this the reason. The AD 60/61 revolt was more involved with destruction than looting and followed the death of an Iceni king so I wonder if it was caused by the imposition of Roman burial rites when they wanted their traditional rites

Tools excluding surgical instruments, weapons and gold excluding dental work were forbidden in the burials. Common objects seem to haver been gaming boards and counters, glass bottles and coins. With the gaming boards there seems to a possibility that these might have been foreigners rather Romans but the issue is not completely clear,

Currently the only original source I have identified is Cicero De Legibus II 24 but I want to check this to confirm exactly what it does say. Additionally there appears to be some other original sources but the references are not very good and still working on them.
I have assumed that the gaming boards have a different purpose to tools but currently I have no confirmation of this and trying to find more information. It could be based on some ritual belief and I am trying to find some evidence of this.
The bottles appear to have held something like perfume or oil so it might have a container for something that was used during preparation of the body or it might have been something that the spirit took with them so that they could look good during the journey to the underworld.

From somewhere I had become aware that a number of styli had been found at Sedgeford and the number seems abnormally high though I do not have any data to compare it with.
My first thoughs were that the styli might have survived better at Sedgeford for some reason though not sure what. I also wonder if there is better recognition and/or recording at Sedgeford.
Then assuming there really is an above average number being found I wondered about the reasons. I though about a religious site, a high status site and would a trading centre produce such a result. I am beginning to have doubts about Sedgeford being high status though I could be very wrong. Thus I think that a religious site is the most feasible.
My understanding is that there are regional cemeteries that are not religious sites so I do not think that is a viable reason. It would be interesting to identify the reasons for the siting of regional cemeteries and the area that they served to see if Sedgeford fits into this criteria.

'Does anyone know if it has been considered that Sedgeford may have been a religious site?'
Many times Bren...many times. As you have seen in Tims book, it isn't generally considered that the other evidence holds up to the formerly supposed importance of Styli. Tim himself described our beloved field as 'nothing more than a nacient manor' last time I heard him talk about it. What it probably does mean is that much more ordinary places 'should' have styli occuring at them than is currently known. And yes - he has certainly dated the Sedgeford ones as AS, and they are mostly copper alloy but I think there is some discussion about 'styliform' pins which can be bone... I can't remeber if Sedgeford has any Iron ones, anyone??
Anyway, must log off now coz I'm at work.
Soph

Dave wrote:
"I though about a religious site, a high status site and would a trading centre produce such a result. I am beginning to have doubts about Sedgeford being high status though I could be very wrong. Thus I think that a religious site is the most feasible."
As Sophie said, the idea that Sedgeford was a religious site has been mooted many times over the years, as well as the possibility that it was high status.
Gareth and Kris gave a talk about the site at one of the Tuesday lectures last summer, and these possibilities were raised again by Kris, based on the animal bone collection. I don't remember the details, but Kris suggested that there was a transition from one to the other - I think from religious to high status. The possibility of a high status settlement was based on - if I recall correctly - bird bones that provided evidence for hunting.

I think there was a bit more to it than just one hawk bone. I believe that there was also an increase in the number of pig bones. The suggestion was that this might show a shift from a predominately dairy (cows and sheep/goats) diet to a more meat eating (including pigs) one. This would be compatible with a shift from a religious community to a secular one. I don't think that we have to assume that the religious themselves were (permanently) on-site, only that the estate existed primarily to support (and was presumably owned by) religious - the sort of thing sometimes referred to as a 'grange' in later medieval times.

Hi folks ! I thought it was about time someone started asking questions again, so here goes !
Sophie - a while back you suggested seine fishing for the characters in my story. Do you think they would do this in March ? It would have been pretty damned cold. And I haven't even seen any wood washed up on the shore (as you get here - driftwood) so they couldn't start a fire to warm themselves when they got out of the water.

I would imagine the fish would largely be got from ponds and from fishing boats. I wonder if people would have gone into the water much before the summer.

Hey - i'm back, but I'm on short internet hours these days so I'll look some stuff up about winter fishing and try to post tomorrow!
Soph

Not the answer you are looking for but it might throw some light on the situation.
There is a lot of archaeological evidence for fish traps and weirs so this appears to have have been a popular method for catching fish. However where fish bone has been recovered from sites a very large proportion appears to be salt water rather than fresh water fish. This seems to indicate that there were different fishing methods in use and could support the use of nets in the sea. It could also indicate that the bones of salt water fish are more likely to survive than fresh water fish.
I think there is a lot of research required to understand the subject and to produce an answer that can be supported.

Hello all, general question not really related to SHARP....I am looking for information I.E. descriptions and/or plans/sketches of bronze age, iron age and romano-british and maybe anglo-saxon cooking pits, bread ovens and the like. Information on construction techniques would also be useful and maybe this would mean looking at kilns too. Can anyone point me in the direction of any websites or books which may contain this kind of stuff?
Many thanks, Phil.

Hello all, a question I know I've asked before but I can't remember what the answer was. What are the approximate dates for Ipswich ware and Thetford ware pottery? Also does anyone know of a good beginners guide (or intermediate) to pottery identification in archaeology? One with lots of pictures !
Cheers Phil.